Talk:Zangetsu (Shadow Rage)
No... No... No... No... We are not doing this. I'm sick of this shit. Zangetsu is turning into Sharingan and Uchiha now, and I won't stand for it. We already have two other Zangetsu here (excluding Ichigo), which is already pushing it, and now a third? **** off. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 18:50, October 15, 2010 (UTC) :Let him do it. Allowing Ten to have Zangetsu slapped onto Raian and not this guy to write fan fiction based on Zangetsu is beyond hypocrisy. --[[User:LaviBookman|'れび']] (talk to Lavi!) 20:21, October 15, 2010 (UTC) ::You misunderstand, Lavi. I'm speaking of quantity right now, not quality. Ten was the first to use a non-canon Zangetsu, and then Aha decided to use the idea for his own character. That's already two people. By allowing someone else to also make one, will continue the chain, and I would rather not see BFF turn into NF. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 20:26, October 15, 2010 (UTC) You fucking disgust me seireitou.How dare you...just..how fucking dare you.Stifling peoples creativity like this...and the way you bend everything in your favor, its almost laughable that such and articulate person can be so blind. Well, nameless degenerate, you're saying the fiasco of the NF Sharingan spam was a good thing, and the people who were trying to quell it were blind? You sir, need to watch yourself. Aha never asked for my approval anyways, he asked Ten (I'm almost sure), meaning Ten's was the only one I approved personally. Besides, calling me hypocritical when I never used Zangetsu myself is off. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 20:46, October 15, 2010 (UTC) :Such a shame I didn't come here first. I would've spared him such harsh words. But, I digress. Sorry, Shadow, but I'm going to have to agree with Seireitou as well. Sure, the temptation to immediately snatch up a popular Zanpakuto can be strong. But, if articles of that same object of popularity is going to be repeatedly created, then it's going to be a problem. If you were aiming to use Zangetsu for a story-line... you could've just asked the owner... which I believe is Ten. --Senkaku, the Lost Prodigy (My Personal Character | My Talk Page) 23:05, October 15, 2010 (UTC) Oh, thats the way to go, you're already down to insulting me by calling me a degenerate.You're speaking to me as if you're words hold a higher authority over mine, which i find, is only natural, given the position someone like you has been granted.You sir, are the one who needs to watch yourself.Fanon is (supposed) to be a fun an enjoyable concept where the participants (are supposed) to create content pertaining to bleach, and then, someone like you, insecure, problably with an inferiority complex, given the nature of you're insanely godmodded content, who has been wrongly given the place of head admin, must create a set of meaningless rules, or guidelines etc, in order to make those who participate in this follow you're every command.And dont give me that, you know, YOU KNOW, that without the shadow of a doubt you'd immediately shoot down this persons request to use zangetsu.I never called you a hypocrite either.This isnt the nature of what an administrator should be, and saying that one cannot use zangetsu while the other can...that is just a low act of bastardry.Make no mistake, i am indeed saying what everyone else on this site is thinking, you had better change you're ways soon, if you ever want to make the bleach fan fiction wiki a truly enjoyable and user friendly place.What you're doing here is tyrannical and preposterous.You dont deserve the place of head admin, not with the way you're conducting things right now.There may have been one point where you were an assett to this wiki, but now you've become drunk on you're own power, and you need to be punished, or the very leasy atone.Ten, Lavi, anyone else would be a far more suited head admin than you.Bless you're soul...you'll need it. :You know, it probably doesn't matter if I respond to this or not, seeing as you're banned and all, but I feel like I have to say this. I'm seriously laughing at how seriously you're taking this, as if I was some government official or something abusing the tax laws. It's a fanon site on the internet, dude. Chill. Anyways, you use the term fucking with my name, and also call me blind, and I should call you something nice? Who's the hypocrite now, buddy? --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 19:40, October 22, 2010 (UTC) :I have to agree with Seireitou, Ten has 2 characters with Zangetsu and Ichigo himself, and aha has Dyan this is becoming an epidemic in my honest opinion. -- 楽しい Vui (吐露) 22:30, October 15, 2010 (UTC) Let me just clear this up now Title speaks. I'm getting rid of Kento, who possess Zangetsu, and I should mention that anyone following Sei and I's story should note that Raian's Zangetsu is different than Ichigo's. I didn't want to spoil this, but apparently I have to, since I don't everyone and their dog to have Zangetsu. I refuse to let this place turn into the rathole that NF has become. Raian's power is linked to Ichigo's via the Soul Link, however, that doesn't mean he keeps Ichigo's power. His Zangetsu is constantly changing as his own power returns to him. Eventually, it'll be something else entirely with a few of Zangetsu's old abilities. That aside, I agree with everyone else that we're not making Zangetsu the Sharingan of this wiki, so no more. ---'Ten Tailed Fox' talk page 23:44, October 15, 2010 (UTC) :The point of allowing canon characters here was so that they would be different from the canon continuity. I was against the creation of canon characters on here because some people would start setting bad precedents. It all starts with the first person to create the character with Zangetsu, or Ichigo, or Ulquiorra, or Grimmjow: it has nothing to do with Shadow Rage's decision. If I see something being done, I would instantly assume that it is an accepted thing to do. I'm sure that was what Shadow Rage thought when he saw an '''admin' using Zangetsu''. If you don't want people to be over-doing the usage of Zangetsu then make sure that no one is writing anything that includes Zangetsu. Easy enough? --[[User:LaviBookman|'れび']] (talk to Lavi!) 16:43, October 16, 2010 (UTC) ::I disagree. We are not a community of elementary students. We should have to make ultimatums of either everybody is allowed and nobody is allowed. People of our ages should have some sort of sense of limitation, and if they attempt to repeat NF's Sharingan overuse, then they will not be allowed to use it. Besides, I find it completely ludicrous that Zaraikou decided to make a Zangetsu just as Zangetsu's true powers became shown. Aha used it way earlier, and Ten already stated before that his two characters will both eventually lose Zangetsu. Besides, both mentioned users are senior members, and are expected to have a sense of limitation. We're not running a Goddamn Elementary school, and I don't intend to treat it like one. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 17:07, October 16, 2010 (UTC) :::If we're not a community of elementary students, then stop acting like every new user is an elementary student. I also don't want to treat newbies like elementary students, because not all of them are elementary students. This wiki is a jumbo mess in terms of allowed, disallowed, etc. because the rules are constantly being changed without forewarned announcements. But yes, let's make an ultimatum over this whole issue: canon characters and their zanpakuto should not be allowed for any reason, whatsoever. That should fix up the overuse of Zangetsu and any other characters in Bleach. Current content can be grandfathered in, but they would have to be restricted to simply fan fiction articles and not role-playing. In regards to "people of our ages," what should happen is not exactly what does happen. Adults should be mature and behaving individuals. But that's not the reality: adults are going to prison for rape and substance abuse. If you find people jumping on the bandwagon when the manga reveals new things about character to be ludicrous, then don't let people put their fan fiction about it here. --[[User:LaviBookman|'れび']] (talk to Lavi!) 17:22, October 16, 2010 (UTC) The Concept of Mugetsu Just another suggestion I'm throwin out there, but I've noticed a trend regarding the classification of Ichigo and the form he assumed when he faced Aizen after learning the Final Getsuga Tenshou. Aizen assumed that Ichigo threw away his reiatsu to attain full power, but I dont think thats the case. Recall the very basis of Ichigo's bankai - ie his Hyper-Speed Combat. It condenses all the power of his Bankai into a small form allowing him to fight at hyper speeds. Presumably we can say most if not all of his physical abilities are augmented as a result. When he returned to fight Aizen, its in my opinion, that he actually mastered his Bankai. It compressed ALL of his reiatsu into himself, so much so that he no longer releases Reiatsu due to this heightened condensation. Now imagine if you will, how much speed and strength he would have with all that power flowing through him? This goes beyond the skill to manipulate ones reiatsu internally, its the basis of his Shikai/Bankai taken to the highest limits possible. The only way Ichigo is even able to release his Reiatsu in any destructive manner is through his sword, via the Getsuga Tenshou. In that sense I assume that his Zanpakutou's true power lies in its ability to regulate the input/output of his spiritual energy. Just my two cents onto the whole Final Bankai thing. Hope it helps in constructing the rest of your techniques. Later, I gotta jet. --- Illuminate Void 17:10, October 22, 2010 (UTC) Fair Review Alright, now that I've actually read it, I've decided to fairly address my thoughts on your Zangetsu. I have two major (and one slightly major) concerns with this article. One, the fact that it is Ichigo's, and you added new techniques to it, is changing canon information. In the concept of Ten's Raian Getsueikirite, or Aha's Dyan Arashi, both do not possess Ichigo's Zangetsu, but their own, meaning that they might be able to create their own techniques. In the Zanpakutō Unknown arc, Zangetsu explained that he had nothing left to teach Ichigo. Now, the Mugetsu was something new, but was taught by Tensa Zangetsu. Also, as a side note, that arc may have been filler, but it was the only filler that Kubo himself designed personally, meaning the information in it is credible. Giving Ichigo's Zangetsu so many new moves is actually breaking into canon, even if it takes place after Aizen's defeat and Ichigo's loss of powers. Second, most of the moves that you gave him shouldn't even have been named. Especially the Shimetsu in general, is just a point-blank Getsuga. Are you saying that if I use a Cero from far away, vs one at close-range, those two are different techniques? Calling it a variation means it was a technique that follows a similar design, but not the same technique. In this case, it is the same technique, and didn't require a new name. Also, and this is something I find annoying, but I might be wrong in this accusation, but judging by the format of which you placed the techniques, Mugetsu is an ability that comes about by the Kyūkyoku no Getsuga Tenshō. This is the most strongest of all issues, because you just renamed the Final Getsuga, and that literally is rewriting canon. Like I said, I may be wrong, but the format implies otherwise. Lastly, my "slightly" major concern is the Zangetsu Prime name. This isn't Transformers, and Zangetsu isn't Optimus Prime. His name in Bankai is Tensa Zangetsu. Aha coined the term Hollow Tensa as well, which would make sense in some way, but Zangetsu Prime implies that he is returning from an old age to a full age. This would be considered false, as Prime is the term refering to someone in their early 30's, yet Tensa Zangetsu was shown to be no more than Ichigo's age in appearance, making him Teenage, not Prime. Besides, it wouldn't even matter. You can't just give Zangetsu a new name like that. Anyways, those are all of my concerns. It should be noted that almost all of these concerns stem from the fact that you openly state this is Ichigo's lost Zangetsu. If it was a separate Zangetsu, like Dyan Arashi's, then I probably wouldn't have much to mention. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 18:59, October 22, 2010 (UTC) I have a question regarding, the canon aspect so to speak. What does it matter, if we take something from canon than expand upon it? Whose to say that Tensa Zangetsu didnt develop variations at a later time? I'm honestly really confused about this "ruling" of sorts since it seems to be situational. For example you've created quite a number of evolutions that are just expand versions of canon ones combined with your own theories, such as the Shinkumyo, or the Xiaochu. I personally dont see much difference between what you've done and what he's done with Zangetsu. Given that, where is the distinction drawn then? Because as of now it isnt very clear. Maybe thats something that should be brought up in the BFF Polices and Regulations? Expanding or providing explanations for canon content, like my above opinion of Ichigo's Bankai when he fought Aizen. I apologize if I keep coming off as the devils advocate. --- Illuminate Void 19:25, October 22, 2010 (UTC) :Well, it is different. While my ideas are originally adaptions of canon work (Shinkumyo was based on Blanks, which were from a movie, and thus filler. We have no ruling when it comes to filler), they were eventually formed as completely unique ideas, or abandoned completely. Now, this is Zangetsu. ICHIGO'S Zangetsu. Like I stated before, if Zaraikou had given someone Zangetsu, it would be theirs, not Ichigo's, and thus would have no affect on canon whatsoever. Now, I find the fact that Zaraikou used Ichigo's Tensa Zangetsu after Ichigo lost his powers; even the reasoning behind it can easily be picked at, but that isn't the concern here. I will admit that we still need to establish a ruling on how to go about expansion of canon characters, but at the same time, fans are expected to have some sort of logic about the series. It's the fact that he has no reason to add to Tensa Zangetsu. The characters I added to, most noticeably: Byakuya Kuchiki (Seireitou), or Ten's Sōsuke Aizen, each had room for adaption. Byakuya would eventually move up, as all Captains usually do, to the Royal Guard. Aizen would want revenge, so that also makes sense. However, nothing in the canon ever expressed Zangetsu's need to go on his own. He even admitted that his desire was to protect Ichigo. The thing that this boils down to is, while I won't act like a hypocrite and use canon characters and tell others not to, at the same time, I've never used a canon character that didn't have some sort of reasonable reason to be fanonized. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 19:36, October 22, 2010 (UTC) :Hmm. I think I get it. So as long as you (the author in question) can provide a reasonable and compelling backstory/reason for using/expanding upon canon content it SHOULD be alright. That is, as long as it doesnt step on the toes of whats already considered "canon". Examples are zanpakutou release states beyond Bankai (even though it was explicity stated in canon that it was the final release a zanpakutou could have). But a Bankai could have various stages, formations or abilities, allowing for expansion right? Things like that seem to be fair game. --- Illuminate Void 21:33, October 22, 2010 (UTC) ::Exactly, or how I made the Sinsaeng Jeongsu concept, which is a state of a Zanpakutō that has no correlation with Shikai or Bankai, meaning it can't be something "stronger" since it doesn't have anything to do with Bankai. It's pushing the envelope alittle, but it's supposed to be the original Jinzen, as made by the Sōzōshin. But yes, you are correct in those examples. --Seireitou-shishō (My True Identity | Talk to Me :3) 23:26, October 22, 2010 (UTC) GIF How'd you make that gif?--私はあくまで執事ですから - "I'm one hell of a butler."'' ("Heaven?") 22:48, October 22, 2010 (UTC)'' :on the note of GIF's, wouldn't it be better to use a pic of Zangetsu firing the Shikai Getsuga?--私はあくまで執事ですから - "I'm one hell of a butler."'' ("Heaven?") 01:23, October 23, 2010 (UTC)'' Nice pic, and gif's, love 'em. Bombadcrowftw 12:46, October 23, 2010 (UTC)